Anyone got a loud stereo?

[drbinoche]

Im well aware of the history behind the 1916 rising. The fact that Pearse knew a blood sacrifice was needed. The shelling of O Connell Street by the british. The fighting left right and centre and the eventual collapse, imprisonment, trial and execution of the men involved as well as of Willie Pearse just coz of his bro. Im not arguing that. I understand the importance of our history.

But in your statement you missed a glaring problem ' a FREE Ireland'. This would include the FREEDOM of the orange men to march up O Connell street if they so wish. Same as the right for Republicans to hold weekly fuckups there, that bug me and make my traversing of the street damn near impossible. Maybe I dont feel as fervently as I honestly do not agree with either side. The Orangemen are bigotted scum who believe what they want, go around causing shit and in the past and to an extent today making life shit for republicans. The Republicans are people who fought a war which killed 2000+ people, murdered Gardai, bombed innocent commemoration parades, dealt drugs (whether PIRA/IRA/CIRA/RIRA/INLA, some of them did so under the banner of republicanism) and generally made life difficult for unionists.

Now my conjecture is this:

Can we not move on and whilst honouring our dead as we shall for the 90th anniversary of 1916, also allow people the Freedom as fought for by Pearse, Connelly et al, to parade up O Connell street if they so wish. You guys have the right to stand and make a political statement against it. But I dont feel you would or should have the right to obstruct or remove the parade.

Tom Patriotism is only a step away from Jingoism and thats a whole different and more dangerous road to travel.

[tom]

Thats were your wrong, they don't want to be part of a free Ireland, so let them rot in the filth that they created up north, and stay in their own country. I'm sure America would allow an Islamic Sepritist march down 5th Avenue or whatever to comemerate the bombing of the Twin Towers

[tom]

I'm not saying it was a lecture, you just seemed to be trying to make out it was new stuff, none that we had ever heard of

[dana]

come on now thats a bit out of order

[pekkle]

Well the Problem is.. Ireland isn't actually "FREE". We're still not a complete country. We have 6 counties still under British Rule.

Also I am in no way condoning the actions of any republican group that murders innocent people. I think it's disgraceful.

The Orange Men see themselves as part of a different country. The see themselves as part of the British Empire. What they are doing is coming into a different country and marching through the capital's main street. What can this possibly achieve?

Do you not think that it is completely insensitive and will do nothing except cause hurt for all those families who have had people killed by Unionists and for those families and relatives of people who fought in 1916?? I mean if they had any sense of dignity and pride they would not march down here.

And I have no intention of obstructing the parade. Not once have I said that I would. I think it's a politically incorrect move for the Orange Men. All they are going to do is annoy people. I do think it's very unfair on the Irish people to come down to the North to March in Dublin. But I'm not jumping out with my rifle to cause trouble. In fact I think anyone who does is wrong. We're a better and stronger people than that and shouldn't rise to the pettiness of a few people who want to bang and drum tell us how wonderful the queen is!

As you've pointed out. Many people have been killed from both sides of this one arguement. I don't think more names added to the list will do any side much good.

[dana]

i agree about the marching but the northerner slating is bang out of order

[tom]

George Washington killed innocent people, but some people seem to forget that. If Washington was around today, he'd probably be considered a terrorist. The british tortured and plundered our ansestors for 800 years, surely you can allow us a little payback

[dana]

yeah but you have your beliefs and they have theirs. nobody ever considers themself wrong, do they?

[drbinoche]

Do you not think that maybe we could be the bigger people by not giving a shit. If they want to parade what difference will it make!!! Insensitivity, fine. Then I find it insensitive for Sinn Fein to hold commemorative marches and placards for the likes of Bobby Sands and other freedom fighters/terrorists. What about the Innocent people murdered by the Republicans in all their guises?? Should the republican groups not condemn the murdering of all gardai committed by their beloved 'freedom fighters' over the years??

More importantly a united Ireland is an impossibility and the sooner we face up to this the better. Financially we could not survive, politically we could not survive and more importantly do you honestly feel that the unionists up the north should just give up their beliefs and try living in England.

BTW most of my comments are not intended as attacks, but more as debated questions. I appreciate you guys have your beliefs and so be it, but I am intrigued and interested into the manifestations and basis behind your beliefs.

[tom]

Did you know Bobby Sands was the oldest of the hunger strikers at 26, most were in their early 20's, brainwashed by the IRA while teenagers. Lost and confused and brought into circles by people they looked up to and admired, ended up giving their lives to try to help this country gain independance and to try to carry on the name of people like Padraic Pearse, Michael Collins, James Connolly, Sam Maguire and so on. But the big wigs in Downing Street just saw it as one less mouth to feed, one less Irishman complaining to them about freedom and so on. Most of them wern't even prven guilty, most of them were imprisonedunder the terrorist act, if you think their a terrorist, they probably are, lets throw them in the maze for 14 years without trial

[dana]

its irrelevant i know, but they all looked way older than 26!

[ethos]

Technically, Bobby Sand's death wasn't directly because of the struggle to free the north, but it was because he and his fellow prisoners had been denied their status and rights as political prisoners, the British Government claimed that they were just murderers and criminals, whereas the IRA claimed that they were combatants in a war.

The behaviour of the British Government caused near universal outrage across the world, and I believe it can be shown that this was the probably the most important early factor that lead to the Good Friday agreement, as the Republicans used politics to their advantage successfully for the first time, as Bobby Sands was elected the M.P. for Fermanagh and South Tyrone while he was on Hunger Strike.

When elected, Bobby Sands became the youngest member of parliament and died 25 days later, one of the shortest terms in history.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Sands
Near the bottom of this page is a list of the commerations that were made across the world after the death of Sands.

Of particular note: "The Hindustan Times said Margaret Thatcher had allowed a fellow Member of Parliament to die of starvation, an incident which had never before occurred 'in a civilized country.'"

[ethos]

dana said:

its irrelevant i know, but they all looked way older than 26!

It's the seventies haircuts!!!

[tom]

dana said:

its irrelevant i know, but they all looked way older than 26!

They weren't given facilities to wash or cut there beards. It's like Phil looks about 10 years older with his beard. It wasn't really to get political prisoner status really either, it was just to get a humaine status